Some Times on Contenders

Zip Dobyns

We now have birth times for the two front running Democrats, and time within a few hours for one of the “also-rans.” Thanks to Lorraine Welsh and Fran McAfee, we have a birth certificate time of 11:45 P.M. EST for Paul Tsongas. The rest of the data is February 14, 1941 in Lowell, MA. Unfortunately, we have two conflicting times for Bill Clinton: 3:44 A.M. and 7:30 A.M. CST. One is said to come from his mother and the other from someone in Arkansas who claims to have seen his birth certificate. I’m not even sure which time is from which source since I have received conflicting reports on that. The balance of Clinton’s data is August 19, 1946 in Hope, AR. Tom Harkin’ older siblings say that he was born shortly before they came downstairs to prepare to go to school, so we assume some time before 7 A.M. CST. His date and place were November 19, 1939 in Cumming, IA. I am using a tentative rectification of 5:55 A.M. Jerry Brown’s data was known from his days as governor of California: April 7, 1938 at 12:34 P.M. PST in San Francisco, CA.

I have nothing on Kerrey’s birth time, but he dropped out shortly before this issue of The Mutable Dilemma went to the printer. I expected him to be the next to go, as I said in the last Asteroid-World which was written in January, 1992. He would get a Halley contact (to justify his being in the race at all) if he was born near my totally speculative guess of a birth shortly before 1 P.M. That time would put 22 to 25 Leo on the MC in Kerrey’s home of Lincoln, NE, the longitudes of T Halley for the election and the inauguration. As noted in the Asteroid-World, three of the Democrats have their natal Suns at 26 degrees of fixed signs. Kerrey’s birth date of August 27, 1943 missed the pattern. T Halley will hit Jerry Brown’s fixed cross in cardinal houses at the election when it will be conjunct his P Antivertex, opposite Jupiter and square the P nodes as well as trioctile natal Saturn-Ceres. The patterns certainly fit a power struggle, but I think Brown is more of a gadfly or a spoiler than a contender with a real chance. The news analysts mostly agree that Brown is more likely to pull voters who would have supported Tsongas; the young, educated, moderately well off suburbanites, while Kerrey’s withdrawal may help Clinton who appeals to older, working people including minorities and the less educated. Brown is also appealing to the people concerned with the environment, an area where Tsongas is under attack because of his support for nuclear power. But Brown is also increasingly pitching to labor which could cut into Clinton’s margins.

News reports of the finances of the contenders say that Bush started the race for the presidency with about 14 million dollars. Recently, he raised 2 million between lunch and dinner in L.A. Buchanan started with something over 1 million dollars but more has come in after his showing in New Hampshire and the size of the uncommitted vote in South Dakota. Clinton had over 5 million at the beginning of the race, as well as a good system in place to get more. Harkin and Kerrey had more financial resources than Tsongas at the start, but he has now pulled well ahead after his win in New Hampshire while they are both almost out of money. Brown is running a low budget campaign and is thought to be capable of staying in the race to the end. The state of California provides him with a very comfortable living as we do all of our ex-governors who never have to work again. Long before you get this issue of The Mutable Dilemma, we will have the results of more primaries and the Democratic ranks may have thinned. As this issue of The Mutable Dilemma is in its final editing process, the news is coming in that Clinton has won big in Georgia while Tsongas has won in Maryland and Jerry Brown had edged them out in Colorado. Harkin is almost certainly the next drop-out. Bush is winning everywhere but Pat Buchanan is giving him a run for the money.

An interesting interview on public radio was recently conducted with Christopher Hitchens, a columnist for The Nation and a Washington, DC editor for Harper’s Magazine. Hitchens described the “invisible” primaries which are held well before the public ones. First, he said, comes the “money” primary in which the would-be candidates appear before small groups of potential donors to their campaigns. The leaders of these groups are individuals who can call on their friends for sizable donations. For example, a Maryland real estate man named Nate Landau is one such leader who can call on about 50 friends to donate quite a lot of money. After the candidates meet the fundraisers, they face the “media” primary. They meet leaders of the Press who are looking for a candidate who is likely to provide interesting quotations. Hitchens claimed that everyone knew that Bill Clinton had “won” both of these preliminary primaries before the public ever started hearing about him. The media cooperates by doing “soft” interviews which do not dwell on embarrassing issues, presenting the candidate in a favorable light. Hitchens said Clinton had the nomination wrapped up before the tabloids started bringing out his philandering and his draft record. The Republicans are suspected of having helped this expose.

I mostly relied on Halley’s Comet when I made my forecast of Clinton as the Democratic nominee before I had birth times on any of the Democrats and before I heard the Hitchens interview. Having accurate angles does strengthen Tsongas’ chart though I still do not think he can win the election or even the nomination. But the more I study the asteroids, the more it seems possible that he might be the Vice Presidential candidate.

I just got an approximate birth time for Pat Buchanan from Lois Rodden; shortly after midnight according to him. He is currently being raked over the coals on public radio, my main news source here in Dodona, though Bush is still mostly refusing to mention his name. Buchanan’s showing in New Hampshire is really not remarkable when you realize that he campaigned there for ten weeks while Bush spent four days there. Also, polls indicated that at least half of the people who voted for Buchanan did not approve of him but just wanted to send a message to Bush. It will be the Democratic nominee who will get the full nasty treatment after Buchanan is demolished. Hitchens suggested that the only way to restore democracy to the U.S. election process would be to make any donations to candidates illegal as they are in England. In England, candidates get free radio and TV time and their literature is delivered by government mail.

Pat Buchanan was born in Washington, DC on November 2, 1938. I do not have events in his life to “fine-tune” his exact time of birth, but based on his current power struggle with the President, I am using a tentative time of 0:20 A.M. EST. This time puts the Ascendant at just under 23 Leo where Halley will be trundling back and forth all year. If the time is close to accurate, it also puts the Ascendant opposite Jupiter and square Mercury and Ceres for a fixed grand cross in cardinal houses—a power struggle pattern which fits his belligerent life. The material I have on his life describes it as a perpetual power struggle from early childhood. The prominent Jupiter, supported by the Moon in early Pisces, fits his religious convictions which border on fanaticism at times. He is often described as a milder version of David Duke. Icarus at 7 Capricorn and Potomac (the river in Washington, DC) at 7 Cancer are octile-trioctile the fixed cross with Chiron at 9 Cancer and Mars at 5 Libra involved more widely. Another indication of issues involving religious faith is Buchanan’s quincunx between Neptune and Jupiter.

His power struggle is also suggested by N and P Halley square his natal Sun. Currently, P Mars have moved to conjunct the Sun and square Halley as well as form an octile to Neptune. P Icarus is now conjunct P Vesta as he over-reaches in his job aspirations and they are octile P Mercury and trioctile Phaethon at 13 Gemini as he uses his biting tongue in the battle. Another indication of possible over-reach in the chart is natal Hybris (hubris) on Washingtonia and Fama, the latter associated with “false report” as well as with fame. P Hybris is now opposite his natal Atlantis. One of Pat’s primary goals seems to be to turn the clock back, so I was amused to find natal Epimetheus on his Mars. Of course he sees himself as a heroic rebel against the Establishment, so it is appropriate that he had natal O’Higgins on his Sun to the minute of longitude.

As usual, the personal name asteroids blew me away. Pat Buchanan has natal Patricia (the female equivalent of Patrick) in 27 Pisces exactly opposite George and Don Quixote. Most people would agree that his attempt to unseat George is pretty quixotic since he is unlikely to win a single state and the Republicans have the “winner takes all” system which will deny a single delegate to Pat even if he get a third of the votes in most states. P Pat(ricia) is currently square Vesta and P Potomac and opposite P Williams and P Apollo. Though P Washington(ia) is slightly over one degree from a conjunction with Vesta and a square to Pat, it is in orb of squares to Williams and Apollo, so it becomes part of the cardinal cross in fixed houses. Natal Uranus, the true P lunar nodes, and my tentative MC at 16 of Taurus-Scorpio form octile-trioctiles to the cardinal cross. If the 0:20 A.M. birth time is accurate, Pat’s Houston MC is 27 Aries so natal Daniel and Herbert are on the local IC along with P George and P Antivertex from Washington, DC. P Dan is on P north node, opposite Uranus and my tentative MC. P Herbert is also still within one degree of my tentative IC. P Pluto holds a lifetime square to natal Georgia (named for King George III of England and “working” for our king George).

The current news commentators are debating whether Buchanan is really trying to defeat the Republicans for this election in hopes of consolidating his position as leader of the conservatives to try to win in 1996, or whether he will swing over to supporting Bush after the nomination though his ultimate goal would be the same. From his chart, I think he will support Bush, since, as mentioned above, his P Pat is opposite P Williams and his P Pallas (which is much involved in politics) is opposite natal Williams, so it looks as if he will oppose Clinton. P Paul in his chart also looks like an opponent since it has retrograded to 7 Cancer where it is on Potomac, opposite Icarus and P Juno, and octile-trioctile Buchanan’s fixed cross. It seems almost certain that Buchanan will continue to stay in the limelight until the next election, but his chances at the Presidency then are even more remote than in 1992. If he actually is held responsible for defeating Bush and letting Clinton win, or even if the election is a squeaker with questions of fraud, many Republicans will hold this against Buchanan. Plus, despite the much publicized swing of the public away from liberalism, by 1996 the financial stress on the average person may bring them to the realization that they have been “had” by the elite propaganda.

In 1996, Buchanan’s P Sun will be conjunct Icarus, opposite P Chiron and Potomac, and octile-trioctile his fixed cross. P Mars will reach a quincunx to P Saturn which will still hold its long quincunx to America at 11 Virgo, forming a yod. At the election in November, P Moon will be conjunct P Saturn, so part of the yod. P Venus will be trioctile P Saturn. P Pat will still oppose P William (will he be running against incumbent President Clinton?) P Pat will also still be octile the true north lunar node and tentative MC and square Vesta and P Washington. It will have just ended the octile to Uranus but the aspect has been in orb for years and is one of many indications in the chart of Buchanan’s role as rebel. P Vesta will oppose Pluto. And I keep wondering whether there will be a wild card in the deck in that election by the name of Norman? P Norman will square Buchanan’s natal Mars and Epimetheus while P Pallas squares natal Norman, Lucifer, and Gaea in their tight conjunction in 16 Sagittarius. P Vesta is on the midpoint of that square. Will Buchanan be accusing our military and the whole earth of being arrayed with Satan against him? The problem with a democratic win in 1992 is that the economic problems are still going to be present in 1996, so the pendulum might swing back. We might have another one-term president and people might look to a successful military leader to “solve” the civilian problems as they have so often in the past. Needless to say, our economic problems are not going to be solved by military actions.

So after suggesting that Buchanan might be opposing Bill Clinton this year or in 1996, what can we do with our current dilemma of two birth times for our democratic front-runner? I still think that he will get the democratic nomination, but I am getting opposite impressions about the election. I initially worked with the 7:30 time which put Clinton’s P MC on Saturn at the election, sextile his Washington, DC Ascendant and East Point, opposite Ceres, square P Jupiter and quincunx P Pallas. In the 1996 election, his P MC would be on P Saturn and natal Halley, sextile Neptune, trine Vesta, but octile Uranus. The double Saturn (MC having the same meaning conjunct the planet) could go either way. It is often an indication of increased power but it can also be a time of failure if we have over-reached. Saturn aspects mark our report-card-times. With this birth time, there are more success aspects in 1996 than in 1992 though winning this year is not impossible. Strong aspects in 1996 would include P Ascendant on P Jupiter and P local East Point on P Venus. Currently, harmonious aspects include P Sun on natal Venus and sextile Pluto while P Venus is semisextile Jupiter. Also, P Mercury is on Juno and P Chiron and sextile natal Sun. On the stress side, P Mars and P East Point are square P Saturn and natal Mercury. P Pallas, our most political asteroid, is on the Washington IC and square the Washington Ascendant and East Point. The strong angle aspects would fit Clinton’s continued prominence through the campaign and the intervening years to 1996. P Antivertex on P south lunar node currently shows lessons involving relationships. P Antivertex will leave the conjunction with natal south node soon after the election in 1996.

With this birth time, at the New Hampshire primary, Clinton had P Moon quincunx his natal MC-north node and his P local MC to form a yod. His past almost knocked him out of the race at its beginning. P Moon was also trine the Ascendant and octile asteroid Williams. During the July nomination, his P Moon will quincunx P Uranus and square Jupiter which could indicate losing the nomination. At the election, P Moon will quincunx natal Sun and square Juno, again not very helpful aspects. P Williams is and for about two more years will stay opposite Uranus. It is also more briefly on P local Antivertex as well as octile P Mars and P East Point and trioctile P Saturn and natal Halley.

After writing the preceding analysis based on the 7:30 birth time, I got a phone call from Marguerite Dar Boggia that Marion March had heard from an unknown person in Arkansas who said she has seen Clinton’s birth certificate with a birth time of 3:44 A.M. ?? The earlier time gives us a very different chart with Saturn exactly on the Ascendant at birth. This birth time is actually more favorable for 1992 than for 1996. P MC would be sextile P Saturn (which is on P Mercury) and trine natal Mars-Neptune as well as sextile Vesta in the ninth house. P MC does quincunx P Mars in the fourth house but that could just mean a separation from home to move to Washington, DC. P Ascendant is trine the local MC in Washington, DC and semisextile Mercury and P Neptune, at their midpoint for the possibility of action to reach his unconscious goals. Clinton’s P MC in Washington would be trine Jupiter in the fourth house and quincunx P Venus. P Moon is less favorable at the election with squares to Jupiter, P Chiron, P Mercury and a quincunx to P MC in Washington. It does have a sextile to P Venus and would move into a sextile to P Vesta by the inauguration, but it will also stay quincunx natal Sun until just about the time for the inauguration and then it will oppose P Antivertex. P East Point is trine P Pallas, our political asteroid, and sextile P Jupiter, but P Jupiter holds a long square to the natal Ascendant and Saturn which suggests that Clinton wants more than is possible or that he is overreaching and may be sorry afterwards. (Maybe anyone who wins this election will be sorry). Clinton’s P Mars will move into a conjunction with his Washington IC, not a comfortable aspect in light of the way our presidents get shot. P Neptune holds a long quincunx to the Washington MC which might mean his aspirations are “pipe dreams” or that he will constantly have to modify his ambitions. On the whole, the earlier birth time shows a real potential for winning the election, but if the elite decide they want to keep Bush and Quayle, elections can be fixed. It is also probable that although Clinton and Tsongas are both running as “outsiders,” they are both pro-business and acceptable to the elite powers behind the scene. Incidentally, in addition to T Halley on his natal Sun at the election, Clinton has his own P Halley on Saturn for many years of his life—as does Dan Quayle who was born just six months later!

Paul Tsongas at the New Hampshire primary had his P Moon sextile P MC, quincunx Mercury, square P Saturn and trioctile Mars. For the nomination in July, his P Moon will square P Jupiter and be octile-trioctile the mean lunar nodes. At the election, P Moon has very strong and some very positive aspects which suggest prominence. P Moon will be conjunct his natal MC for the two months preceding the election so it looks as if he will be in front of the public whether he is campaigning for himself or for someone else. His P Moon will also trine his triple conjunction of Antivertex-Ceres-Paul. It will square P Uranus which is conjunct natal George. It will be trioctile natal Herberta, and quincunx P Mercury.

Many other aspects might be mentioned but it certainly does not look as if Tsongas will fade into the woodwork. I had originally thought that Clinton might pick Kerrey for his Vice President but Kerrey has attacked Clinton’s draft dodging among other things. Tsongas is just five years older than Clinton and it would be possible for him to be his running mate or just to campaign very hard for him. In Tsongas’ chart, P Williams is conjunct P Paula forming a T-square to Juno and a conjunction of America and Hispania so Clinton and Tsongas might be partners struggling for the Hispanic vote. In Clinton’s chart, P Paul and P Paula are conjunct and they are on Clinton’s P IC (using the early birth time), forming a grand trine to Mercury, Halley, P Saturn and Vesta. They are also sextile Clinton’s natal conjunction of Mars-Neptune while P Moon at the election is sextile natal Paula. I still don’t know whether these personal name asteroids are at all reliable, but it is fun to speculate. At the inauguration in January 1993, Tsongas will have his P Moon on Clinton’s natal Sun and T Halley on his MC-P Juno. But what amazed me the most was the angle contacts between both Tsongas’ and Clinton’s charts when they are calculated for Washington, DC. Tsongas’ local MC is conjunct to the degree with Clinton’s local Ascendant while Clinton’s local MC is conjunct Tsongas’ local Descendant. They do look like natural partners if they don’t get too upset by the contest before the nomination. Do you suppose they might actually defeat Bush? Could Tsongas win the nomination and Clinton be VP? That seems unlikely with Clinton’s Leo Sun and his big edge in the south. It is possible to be elected with T Halley opposite one’s Sun because FDR (Roosevelt) did it, and he was inaugurated with T Saturn on his Sun. If Gritz is right, no one wins the Presidency who is not supported by the elite, but they also eliminate (one way or another) any of their servants in high places who do not produce the results they want. (See the article on another U.S. chart for more on Gritz). Both Clinton and Tsongas would be acceptable to the establishment since they are basically pro-business. Harkin and Brown, in contrast, would be less easy to keep in line.

Despite his second place in the Maine caucuses and his current good showing in Colorado, I don’t think that Jerry Brown has a chance, so I will delay any additional discussion of his chart. Colorado and New Mexico have attracted a fair number of “new age” type of people who might be expected to like Brown and he did well in Nevada the last time he ran. He is a mostly regional candidate, strong in the west, as Tsongas is in the northeast and Clinton in the south. But Brown’s negative press in California is likely to lose him the big plum—our huge number of electoral votes. The Midwest is more up for grabs and Clinton has the edge with his organization and his money.

Harkin does not look like a threat either, if my tentative 5:55 A.M. birth time is close to accurate. His mother died when he was ten years old and he was shipped around to half sisters for four years before returning to his father. He was also badly burned when he was only a few weeks old, fitting the close Mars-Moon conjunction in the fourth house. He graduated from college in 1962, was a navy pilot from ’62 to ’67, married in ’68 and has daughters ages 10 and 15. He was elected to Congress in 1974 and to the Senate in 1984 and 1990. He has two strong yods in his chart; P Neptune to Juno in Aquarius and the Aries Vesta-Saturn-P south node and another using the Sun with Neptune and the Aries group. He can be a dynamic speaker but also angers people with his frontal attacks—lots of fire signs in earth houses. His most helpful aspect is a long term trine of P Jupiter to a close Pluto-Pallas conjunction. Though it is risky to make predictions when we lack accurate birth times (as is shown by the improved potentials shown in Tsongas’ chart and the contradictory picture in Clinton’s two charts), I don’t see Harkin going much farther in this contest. In the meantime as the primaries shake out the field, we can explore some additional techniques. So far, I have only looked at secondary progressions and some of the asteroids.


Just received birth data for Hillary Clinton from NCGR from Celeste Longacre: October 26, 1947 at 8 PM in Chicago, IL.

Astrologers are always suspicious of births which are reported at an even hour, suspecting that there was “rounding off,” but I do not have events to check the time so will use what we have. Since she is a very articulate person, the Gemini rising seems a little more appropriate than Cancer rising, though both possible rulers of the Ascendant, Mercury and Moon, are in water signs in earth houses associated with work, so with either, she is identified with work and has the capacity to be both sensitive with the water and practical with the earth. Vesta in Cancer in the second house completes a grand trine in water signs and earth houses showing an individual who is likely to be successful in the world. Her Jupiter in 0 Sagittarius is included in the grand trine, within one degree of the trine to the natal Moon. Hillary is ambitious and idealistic with a power-struggle chart. Law and Politics were good choices for her.

Normally, we would expect more children with her emphasis on Leo and the fifth house, but I think she stopped with one daughter. A single child is not uncommon with the Sun or Mars in Leo or in the fifth house. The squares between the Leo and the Scorpio in the fifth could indicate feeling pulled between children and mate, wanting to do justice to both and feeling that several children might interfere with either her marriage or her career. Juno exactly on the seventh cusp adds to the importance to her of her marriage partner though it can also point to activity as a consultant. She is a successful lawyer. Saturn in Leo also tends to limit the number of children, often due to career aspirations.

I progressed the chart to both November 1992 and November 1996, and the aspects look much more favorable in 1996. Hillary’s natal Halley’s Comet is 6 Leo 59 and it was making a station when she was born. It is now progressed to 6 Leo 31 retrograde. In 1996, her P Ascendant will be conjunct Halley. Her P Sun will trine P Saturn but also trioctile P Ascendant and Halley. P Mercury will conjunct P Jupiter and sextile Neptune. P Ascendant in Washington DC will conjunct Mars, and P Mars will have just reached her IC for a possible change of home and job. P Venus will sextile P Chiron and trine the Antivertex. P Pallas continues to hold a long trine to the Sun and P Juno stays conjunct the Sun/Moon midpoint. There are also some stress aspects, but on the whole, the chart looks more like success in 1996 than in 1992.

Hillary has mixed aspects to her Washington, DC angles with natal Venus trine the L MC at 16 Pisces 29 but P Saturn octile the L Ascendant at 7 Cancer 12. I could not “rule out” a possible win this year, since P MC is trine Saturn and L P MC is conjunct Ceres and quincunx P Moon at the election, but the latter aspect could mean being separated from her current job and home or from her aspirations to move to the White House. P L Ascendant is sextile Neptune and P Ascendant is trine P Mercury during 1992, so she is going to be articulate and hopeful.

Copyright © 1992 Los Angeles Community Church of Religious Science, Inc.

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